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Lotus Notes / Domino Sonstiges => Java und .NET mit Notes/Domino => Thema gestartet von: Marinero Atlántico am 04.05.05 - 17:37:38



Titel: openSores Champion Brazil
Beitrag von: Marinero Atlántico am 04.05.05 - 17:37:38
openSores hat eine Menge Implikationen, die sicherlich nicht nur blauäugig positiv gesehen werden dürfen. Deshalb dieses längere Posting:

 ::)
Die Brasilianische Regierung Lula da Silva versucht sich seit einiger Zeit als eine Art openSores Champion zu profilieren. Ist dem zu trauen ???

In TheServerSide.com wurde dies gemeldet und diskutiert. V.a. die Diskussion ist auf eine Art sehr bemerkenswert.

Teile des Textes der Meldung + Hervorhebungen zu mir.

[start quote]
Brazil's JUG SouJava recently joined the JCP, and the Brazilian government IT department SERPRO is also on its way in. The entry of a staunchly pro-open source government agency into the JCP, as well as a like minded and well organized Java User Group (one of the largest in the world) could have a large impact on the future of Java.

Onno: Brazil is very active from an IT perspective but not as visibly so. What is interesting about Brazil is how organized they are. There is the SouJava JUG in Sao Paulo, and SERPRO government agency. Java user groups are often very informal, meeting once a month on various topics. Soujava does that but they are also almost a political action group in the sense that they share ideas and together they pursue those ideas.

If you look at it from a western perspective, typically governments don't often show this level of forethought about technology, so Brazil is notably taking a significantly different approach and in their case it is working.

It appears to me that the debates in Brazil about open source weren’t so much about which license is better than the other, but it was more a higher level about open source.

[ende quote]

So weit so gut. Eine brasilianische Regierungsorganisation will sich also beim Java Community Process beteiligen und ist pro Standards & OpenSource. Da man sowieso nicht an Software-Patenten verdienen kann und man ja der Bevölkerung den Weg ins digitale Zeitalter eröffnen will, ist man eben dagegen und engagiert sich. Soweit bin ich komplett de acuerdo. Im Grunde freuen sich alle über jeden nicht Hersteller (Tribalisten), der dort teilnimmt.

Manche der Formulierungen lassen natürlich schon kalte Schauer des Schreckens meinen Rücken runterlaufen (higher level, notably different approach, political action group). Solche Worte aus einem Subkontinent, der ein großes Talent darin hat links-populistische und emotional-irrationalistische Äusserungen mit Mißwirtschaft und Korruption zu verknüpfen, verheissen nie gutes.

Und schon wird man bestätigt. Brasilianische TheServerSide.com regulars finden eine Menge Haare in der Suppe.

[quote start]
1. Joao Emilio (positiv)
1)Brazil use Java in a large scale in so many different areas. Government, Financial, Telecom and so on.
I think we need this partnership with JCP to make java realy FREE and EASY to install, use and update on all Operational Systems.
2) We don´t want just one or two companies saying what the world will use, we just want to choose what we will use, and the next step, not worry if it will work here or there, and I think only open source could do that.
3) I can´t wait to see my daugther earning Linux, open office, and using firefox at school. ;)

2. Rodolfo de Paula (negativ)
I was trying to keep away from this thread but you changed it, Henrique. Do you really believe Serpro will not be 100% political ? I mean, our current government is pure rhetorical.

Everything is political for them. They even aggressively tried to take political control of fields like press/journalism (!) and also movies production so how can you imagine they will not prioritize political over technical concerns anywhere ? They even prefer to "make business" with "friends" like Mr Chaves from Venezuela and Castro from Cuba instead of working for a real commercial pact which could give give us more access to USA market. This is ridiculous...

Another example: they are not willinig to give some IT projects to selected companies anymore. Instead, they are hiring lot of people to work inside Serpro, for example. This is NOT a good solution to fight against corruption in government contracts. Although they can have some very talented people there in Serpro, you know, the single fact of hiring hudreds of people (as they did in past year) give then more political power than ever. Do you think this can be better than having lot of small brazilian or even foreign companies competing for these government contracts ? I dont think so.

This government politic will against every good example of building a strong IT industry in countries around the world. And we brazilians know talent and good performance are not usually related to public sector workers, you know.
 
3. Julio Viegas (auch negativ)


Ok, who is your employer? SERPRO?

Do SERPRO have a tech action plan? Or it'll keep it internal only, just for make more and more(and more!) ilicit procurements? Common, let's make things transparent!

I know how government works in Brazil, I worked in Brasilia(Brazil's capital) for almost 3 years. In that period, ITERLEGIS fsck'd with our project, just using power. It's just disgusting.. Mafia style... Yes, it's ALL ABOUT POLITICS!

I'm going to say to you that it'll never, ever, go work! You can't use *Brazil's way* in a so large scope, involving JCP and a global audience...

Real OSS developers aren't stupids... Show something that will create a community, that will envolve developers, and I'll start to believe... Tech forces will always bypass political ones. Do you want an example? Spring, Hibernate...

And, to finish, no, I'm not your enemy! I'm only PRAGMATIC and REALISTIC! Hellloooooooooo?

4. Henrique Steckelberg (positiv)
I don't work for any government dept, but I just happen to know people who does (Rio de Janeiro's Federal Justice TI dept), and I can assure you they do work correctly, although not as much as others ;) . Besides, I've worked in the past for a long time with a big telecom company owned by the government, and I can assure you they do work fine too. Of course there are problems, corruption, power and money misuse and etc as in any govt. company or dept, but I don't think we must generalize that too much. There are very nice examples of projects that do work very successfully (see this example), so I think we can at least have some confidence on the technical people, which I believe (hope) will be the ones involved in JCP. As you said it yourself, technical people will bypass political ones, even when they work for the government.
[end quote]
viva Chile que es diferente, tiene éxito  8)
y por eso lo odian cada vez más.  >:(
(es lebe Chile, welches verschieden ist, Erfolg hat und deshalb von denen immer mehr gehaßt wird)


Axel